Trump trial live: Michael Cohen grilled by Trump defense for past lies under oath

Cohen says he had never asked for a pardon from Trump. “I never asked for it. I spoke to my attorney about it, because we had seen on television President Trump talking about potentially pre-pardoning everybody.” He then reached out to his attorney “to ask whether this was legitimate.”

Blanche is trying to argue that Cohen lied when he said he stated he hadn’t been offered nor would he accept a pardon from Trump – versus what he is saying now, that he was talking about his lawyers.

“I wanted this nightmare to end. It had been dangled. Seeing it on television, I asked them. Is this something they’re talking about?”

Cohen confirms that he asked Costello to ask Giuliani about the possibility of a pardon.

After Blanche draws an objection after trying to mention Cohen’s wife, he tries again: “Do you know whether your wife ever found out about the HELOC and the $130,000?”

Objection, again. Sustained.

Cohen says his wife had no knowledge of the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels, correcting Blanche after he asked whether she knew about moving the HELOC money.

Asked if he deleted all the texts you had with your wife in March 2018, Cohen said: “I’m not aware of that”

Cohen notes that Signal auto-deletes messages.

“Is there any doubt in your mind that the outcome of this trial affects you personally?”

“Can you clarify your question?”

“Does the outcome of this trial affect you personally?”

Cross-examination basically boils down to: You lied under oath, right? And then you lied about not lying under oath, right?

It is difficult to know if the jury is following any of this – Cohen keeps reminding the court he went to prison for doing just that.

“You repeatedly said to congressmen and senators … that you accepted responsibility for Congress?”

“Correct, and that I was going to prison as a result.”

“But do you agree with me that lying under oath is not accepting responsibility?”

“Can you clarify your question?”

“Do you agree with me that when you plead guilty to a crime, and you’re lying, that’s not accepting responsibility, is it?”

“I was accepting responsibility and I suffered the consequences as a result.”

“My question is different. One of the things you get, one of the benefits, is a little bit of time off your sentence. … so when you were sentenced … the judge took into account that accepted responsibility for your crimes.”

“I don’t know what the judge made his determination on”

Blanche: Do you think Judge Pauley would like to know if you lied to him?

Cohen: I don’t know … I’m certain he would have.

You may remember that Cohen took out a home equity line of credit to funnel money into an account to pay off Stormy Daniels.

Blanche asks him if he lied on those forms.

“I took the global plea that was provided to me.”

“Please don’t make a speech … My question was a lot simpler. … Were you lying at the time you made those statements?”

Now jumping to testimony to Congress in 2019.

Blanche suggests Cohen had also lied by “omitting important information” to Congress by not disclosing his criticism of the charges against him. “I don’t believe I was asked a question” about that, Cohen notes.

Blanche is quoting from Cohen’s past statements that suggest the tax charges were bulls*** and that he thinks he is innocent, and then lied in court about that.

Cohen, emphatically: “I have stated, again, that I don’t dispute the facts of the case. … I have for the last six years, including in a sentencing memo, said the same thing, again and again.”

He was criminally charged as a first-time tax evader, he paid the taxes, “all the documents provided to my CPA, organized in a three-ring, tabulated book.”

“I don’t believe I should have been charged. I should have been given the same opportunities as someone who receives a letter from the IRS that there’s an issue with your tax. … [I] didn’t have a chance to meet with an agent. … Immediately in 48 hours, it became criminal.”

One would think Cohen is on trial here.

Blanche: In your book, you described the tax evasion charges were “bogus” and “100 per cent inaccurate”?

“I was referring to again the same thing.”

You also said on TikTok as recently as April 1 of this year that the federal investigation against you was “corrupt”?

On CNN last year, you said that the “lies by the SDNY against me for tax evasion, I hope it all comes out”?

Objection. Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger asks to approach.

Cohen looks at what we’re told is a transcript of his CNN interview

Blanche here is trying to undercut Cohen’s testimony that he lied on Trump’s behalf, by bringing up tax charges that didn’t have anything to do with Trump. But Cohen isn’t suggesting that he lied about the crimes he committed in that case, he just doesn’t think he should’ve been charged.

Cohen is explaining how taxi medallions work in New York after Blanche suggests that Gene Freidman was his business partner.

He leased medallions. Cohen says it’s no different than a tenant/landlord relationship. He didn’t care about the business.

(Freidman was cooperating with the feds against him)

This came up in direct examination, and in the civil fraud trial, where Cohen was accused of perjury after pleading guilty in the tax case:

Cohen had “48 hours to accept the plea or the SDNY was going to file an 80-page indictment that included my wife, so I elected to protect my family.” He “never denied the underlying facts, I just did not believe I should have been criminally charged” for those two offences.

You felt that you were induced or put under pressure to plead guilty because you had just two days? A risk that your loved one would be indicted as well?

“That is what I was told’

Did the government ever tell you that?

“No, they spoke with my lawyer”

The only basis was your lawyer?

Blanche is once again suggesting that Cohen was lying to Judge Pauley when he told the judge that nobody had induced him to plead guilty.